difficult for people to participate in a democratic process. and it's not just african-american, but it's seniors, students, asian american, latinos, and the movement was saying in effect open up the system and let all of the people come in. let everyone participate. my fear if we get rid of section 5, we will go farther and farther back. we made progress, but i say over and over again, we're not there yet. so you can argue oh we have an african-american president. we elected some african-american, latino officials, some asian american officials. but i tell you, in some of these towns and communities in the south still represent the old south. >> on the issue of section 5 specifically, which gives the federal government special power to prevent states and localities from doing things that are deemed to be discriminatory, it doesn't let them do them and then make them subject to lawsuits on behalf, it stops them from doing them. so it is sort of an extraordinary federal power.